The Subtle Art of Not Losing Your Cool (Even When Patients Do)

Andrea (00:04):
Well, hi there. I am Andrea Watkins, and if you're listening to this while juggling three patient calls, checking in a couple patients, taking a payment, selling skincare, and trying to catch your doctor in between procedures, you might be working in an aesthetic practice.

Blake Lucas (00:18):
And I'm Blake Lucas and this is Practiceland. This is not Your doctor's podcast.

Andrea (00:25):
Welcome back to Practicelamd. This is Andrea Watkins. Thanks for listening and joining us back here to talk about the most interesting topics in aesthetics. We have Alli Petriella back with us today. She's been a regular guest to help us talk about and work through lots of topics that we encounter in the practice from the front desk to the consultation patient care coordinator role and beyond. So welcome back Alli. Thanks for coming.

Alli (00:52):
Thanks, excited to be here.

Andrea (00:54):
Awesome. So today we have a very fun topic that we're going to talk about and that is dealing with difficult patients. Alli, if you had to guess, what would you see is probably the average percentage of patients that are just difficult People everywhere they go in the world, they're always going to have this kind of gray cloud. I think of that little care bear with this thunderstorm on his belly. How much do we really run into that?

Alli (01:22):
I would probably say like 50 50 on the front end of the patient experience and an average aesthetic practice just because it's such a vulnerable environment, so people are already a little bit edgy coming into the conversation and a little sensitive. So it is very easy to get emotions involved. So we do run into that kind of often if we don't handle things properly with them.

Andrea (01:43):
Right out of the gate, what do you think is your most difficult patient story? If I were to ask you what happened, what kind of left a brand on your brain of something that you encountered with the patient?

Alli (01:57):
Thinking back, nothing sticks out to me specifically, but I would just say in general it occurred most often with women that were wanting just breast augmentation and they really needed a breast lift and augmentation. Those seemed to be the most challenging prospects and conversations because a lot of pushback around feeling like you need the lift as well, and when that conversation's not handled properly on the front end, it can definitely snowball very quickly. Do you have one that you can think of specifically?

Andrea (02:34):
I have a few. I think the thing that lends itself to be quite difficult is if a patient isn't satisfied after surgery, and I think in over five or six years in the practice, this may only happened two or three times, but anytime that a patient wants to throw out the word botched, that really becomes quite an issue. There's a show called Botched, people throw the word around. It might not be quite as popular today as it was even a year or two ago, but that just starts off very aggressive when that type of verbiage is used from the patient. Obviously nobody wants to be in that situation and so I remember one specific patient that was throwing that word around quite a bit, and so meeting them where they are and really helping them feel validated, which we'll get into in our conversation was really, really important. But that one was definitely pretty tricky. So having you have over a decade of experience of working on the front lines, talking to patients, what are some of the common signs that a patient is on their way to becoming difficult or upset do you think?

Alli (03:48):
I think early on you can tell by the nature of the questions that they're leading with and how resistant they are to cooperate with you or kind of follow your process or answer the questions that you might be asking 'em. I usually could pick up very quickly if somebody was asking very just direct questions that you can tell they already had written out and they're not willing to answer your questions in return. As we've talked about previously on that first phone conversation with a prospect, we have to lead with a lot of questions on our end to be able to answer their questions and some people will not like that. So if they ask a question and then you are absorbing that, but then asking a question back and they're pushing back or maybe they're asking, why do you need to know that? That would always be my first red flag is if I ask a question, how long have you been thinking about this?

(04:44):
And they're like, why do you need to know that? Well, this is kind of unpleasant suddenly, and I don't know what happened here, but that's usually kind of telltale signs that they're a little bit on edge, so we need to gently handle the rest of the conversation. And then same thing goes for not only if they're questioning you and what you are asking, but if they're questioning how doc does things or what his techniques are or how you guys run your process, if they're starting with that, if those questions are normal to come up, everybody's going to wonder a little bit. So if those questions come up a little bit later in the process, that's totally valid and we can always explain to them why we do things the way that we do. There's no problem with that. But if that's the first thing right out of the gate, they're just questioning everything, it's usually starting to raise some alarm flags for me.

Andrea (05:30):
Yeah, I think also just tone. Some people are tone deaf and maybe they may not mean it, but in most cases if people are very short, we've all experienced it. Someone calls, yeah, I need to know block and just very short about any answer, not wanting to even tell you what their name is. So you can have a person to person authentic conversation with them. Why do you need to know my name? I like to use people's names when I'm speaking with them so that we can better further our connection. So I think what are some of the ways that you spot these things that you've just talked about early on?

Alli (06:08):
I think it can be challenging when you're new to the role, but what I've seen with highly trained PCC is across the US and then in my own experience is once you've talked to enough patients and you've seen them go through their entire journey, you can usually tell within the first five minutes of being on the phone with somebody if they're going to be a challenge and it's kind of your job to just decipher is this an all around challenging person or is this someone that's just feeling a little bit of anxious or anxiety and that I could kind of handhold and get to a better place conversationally. So yeah, I think it's just something that you start to sense with how they're communicating with you and how willing they are to follow your lead. And if they're extremely resistant to that, then you need to really slow down and think where do we need to go with this?

Andrea (06:56):
Exactly. And I think too, something that we only experienced a few times, but there will also be patients that'll call and they'll be like, I want to talk to the doctor. And I always found that so interesting because I'm thinking if you're calling a practice and you really think this doctor is a great doctor, don't you think they have a team around them that's going to do this administrative type initial screening of patients? No doctor that's established is going to be sitting around answering the phone and waiting for a random patient to call them from their website so they can talk to them directly the first time they talk to anyone on the phone. So I think having those demands right out of the gate is also another easy way to spot people that are really going to be challenging.

Alli (07:40):
I think when they're very demanding, it can definitely be a red flag right away. We love a gal that knows what she wants, but if they're demanding trying to pull things around and thinking that they know the agenda, then it's starting to raise some red flags and we know that we need to reel it back in and reel the track of the conversation early on.

Andrea (07:57):
Also, I think something that I've experienced in the past is when people are very resistant to the process, that's also another big red flag and you can spot it early because if a patient, yeah, I would love to have you talk to this person, this is what's going to happen. You're going to have a great conversation, yada, yada, yada. Well, why can't you just tell me that? That's obviously a very easy way to spot somebody who's not actually interested in learning and really pursuing the process, but they just want what they want, what they want, and they're not willing to be guided or led.

Alli (08:32):
Where would you typically go with that? If you saw those red flags and started to see that resistance early on and saw the potential of somebody becoming an angry or challenging patient, how would you typically approach that?

Andrea (08:45):
The same way I would approach any situation in life when someone seems like they might be getting angry or frustrated with the way that we want to do things is by providing why it's valuable to them that we do this. Of course we have our own value internally of why we have a process because this is what we know works the best. However, they don't care about that. So to explain to them, well, it's best for us if you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, they're like, blah, blah, I don't care what's best for you, I'm the patient. I'm the person that might be paying you, so do what I want. So what we have to do is we have to flip the script and say, you know what? I understand that this might be a different process you've went through maybe on other calls or other places that you've investigated, but we want to make sure that we get the very best information that's accurate to your unique situation. And so in order for us to do that, I really want you to talk to Alli for example. She knows all the right questions to ask so that when she does give you that information about planning, about recovery, about price ranges, it's actually accurate to your unique situation. And it's not just a big random number. That doesn't mean something specifically for you. So if you flip, again, if you flip the script so that someone is understanding why it's valuable for them, typically people that are actually invested, they're going to understand that and say, oh, okay, that makes sense now, instead of just thinking that we're pushing them through our gates because that's the way that we want to do it.

Alli (10:15):
Absolutely. Did you have any regular practices that you'd recommend or processes that are good for monitoring for those problematic patients before they occur?

Andrea (10:25):
Yes. Yeah, I actually was right before we were recorded, I was just on a call with a client and she's a PCC for a practice in Manhattan, and they have a special way that they labeled their difficult patients right out of the gate and they callem room four because they have three exam rooms. And so when they say this is a room for patient, it's basically this is somebody that we don't want in one of our rooms. So having something just a common thing within your team that we can start identifying and letting our other team members know this could be a difficult patient, really, really important red flag. So we used to have a process when I was in the practice where two red flags me as the COOI would call the patient if they're being abrasive, rude, short, snotty, whatever you want to call it with the front desk maybe then they do get transferred over, they talk to a PCC and multiple people have shown concern no matter what part of the process or initial intake, even if we're at pre-op, we're going through this process.

(11:38):
If it's really a situation where we really don't think that we can meet the goals of the patient, they're always unhappy. They're very short and rude with our patients. We had a process established where we have a conversation to, is this even worth us going forward with? Because we ultimately, all of us, I think we serve patients because we want to help people change their lives and we need a job that's making us feel good about what we do too. So if we're already setting ourselves up into a situation where patients aren't happy, that's not good for anybody. So sometimes you have to have that call and figure out, do we need to break up or do we need to just somehow come to terms with how we're going to move forward respectfully for everybody? Yeah, absolutely. What kinds of tools we're really helpful for you? I mean, you were front desk manager, you were a PCC, you were a lead PCC, you had a lot of sales and administrative team members under you. How did you support them when maybe they were having some of these interactions and really coach them up on how to not take it personally or to get through some of those interactions?

Alli (12:53):
I always, number one would just encourage patience. I think when you're on the phone with somebody who's really worked up, it's very easy, and I'm speaking from personal experience to get worked up yourself and to take it personally, and then the whole conversation escalates and then we don't end it properly and then it just leads to more issues. So I would always encourage everybody to just slow down in that moment and allow the person to talk. So oftentimes when a patient's really worked up, they're telling us something and we're very quickly trying to find a solution so that we could deescalate as quickly as possible, but give them the full space. A lot of the times that's the number one thing they want is they want to be heard and they want you to understand that what happened is an issue in their eyes. So give them the full space to completely explain everything and then validate that you're hearing them and return to them what they said to you so that they know you're listening and you're driving with them and you're trying to find a solution and always explain, just like you said earlier, explain the why behind the what.

(14:01):
So if it's something that they're upset about, procedurally, this is why we do this, I understand why you're frustrated right now, and this is exactly why we do this. It's for your benefit because those policies and those procedures that practices put in place are for the patient's best interest and for the team and the surgeon. And oftentimes the frustration in these conversations arise from a patient desiring something that is not the optimal benefit and they just don't know that it's not the optimal benefit if they want to make their own surgical plan based on, I just want liposuction, even though they've had three C-sections and they have some sagging skin in the stomach, they just don't want to scar, but on our end, doing the liposuction is going to cause more issues for them. And so we want to explain to them, if this is what we were to move forward with, this is what you would experience. We want the best outcome for you, and so this is why we do things this way. This is why we're recommending this because doc doesn't want you to walk around with X, Y, Z, and he doesn't want you to be unhappy with your results. So explaining to them, because once they see why you do things the way you do, they'll very much slow down. They'll appreciate that you are educated and that you're taking the time to understand them and that you want the best outcome for them.

Andrea (15:20):
Absolutely. Have you ever been in one of those situations and you feel like personally attacked where somebody's been because you'd always take it personally? No. Yeah, it's hard not to. When you really do care about what you do and you care about the people you're working with, what are some of the lessons that you've learned in interactions and coaching and everything as you've grown as a professional as well, learning how to really not take these attacks into your own heart, as a personal attack.

Alli (15:51):
It's so easy to take it personally because they often choose very powerful words that they'll make direct threats at you and they make it personal. And so it's very hard to just hear something like that and let it roll off your shoulder. Anyone that's listening to this podcast has probably received those types of hurtful words on a phone call with a disgruntled patient and they know how that feels. So I think that number one, it's just self-confidence in your own self, just completely outside of this phone call, outside of this job, outside of everything, just being firm in yourself and also knowing that this person doesn't know you. More often than not, these types of words are going to come from somebody who it's their first time calling in and they're just upset about something in their personal life. So this person has no idea who you are.

(16:41):
This person doesn't know the type of person that you are. So always just remembering that and it's knowing that they're not though their words seem directed towards you, it's not meant to tear you down in that way. My number one recommendation, I'm such like a let's get outside and get some sunshine person. So I always say take a walk and hopefully you have a leader in your practice that understands the type of situation you're in and understands the weight of something like that and is able to provide you with the right words. I was very lucky to have you as a leader in the practice, so when something like that would happen, you could validate what I was feeling while at the same time being like, okay, in a nice way. Don't be a cry baby. It's not meant for you to take personally, but your big girl panties on.

Andrea (17:28):
I think I actually use those words is don't be a cry baby Alli.

Alli (17:34):
And then just a little personal tip I have is there's always mixed feelings about recording your phone calls. I personally am a gal that loves to have everything recorded. So every phone call, whether it was inbound or outbound, I always wanted all of my phone calls recorded because Andrea could vouch for it as soon as something would go south. I was immediately in the office with the recording and I'm like, listen to this, what could I have done better? And you don't know until afterwards. So when you take that to somebody else and get an outside perspective, and we just did it the other day as well in our current role, I was like, what could I have done differently here? And you were able to identify a lot earlier in the conversation where we could have adjusted our verbiage. So that's always helpful because when you can walk away with a learning, you're going to grow from it. If you're just taking it and trying not to take it personally and then moving forward, it can be a little bit more challenging to drop it.

Andrea (18:33):
Using it as a learning opportunity is key, I think, to understanding that this doesn't have to do with me as a human being and my value and my worth here, but it really is an opportunity first of all, hopefully everyone listening here, and I know some of you don't, but I really hope that the majority of everyone listening has a leader where you have a relationship of trust and mutual respect because that's the foundation of feeling comfortable with those recordings and going to someone and saying, Hey, this didn't go as great as I wished it would've gone. Could you really help me identify maybe what I could have done differently? So I love that perspective because it's really important and that there are going to be difficult patients that give us this opportunity to grow. So maybe silver lining is thanks for being difficult, you've made me a better human or maybe not, and we can just tell 'em to take a walk anyway, so we're talking about patient interactions and how we deal with that, just maybe the conversations that we have with them, but what about patients that are difficult?

(19:41):
They might be great people. To be completely honest guys, I was the difficult patient way before I worked in this industry. I was the person that had a lot of questions. I did a lot of research. I needed two consultations with the doctor before I secured my surgery date. That's how I got into this industry was as a patient, I was one of those people. I'm a nice person. I think maybe don't ask everybody. Yeah, I mean they might say something different, but I'm generally very open, but I'm also very detailed and I'm a super nerd and I need to feel confident in the information that I'm gathering and that I'm getting. So how do you deal with those patients that are difficult? They're not bad people, they're not assholes, but they're just lots of questions need extra nurturing. They could end up being a very big ticket procedure. We're going to change their life. They're going to be our biggest advocate ever in the history of life, which I kind of went through that as well with my surgeon. And they're just not easy because they don't just like, okay, whatever you say, I trust you. They really want to cross other t's dot their i's. They're not going to guarantee you that they're going to book their surgery. They need some time to process. How do you deal with those patients as a PCC?

Alli (21:05):
I love that question because it is such a fine line between this person is a challenge and this person is just anxious and this person's very detail oriented and in the case that it is the latter. It is a hundred percent your job to take their hand and walk them through the process. So decide first, make sure that you're evolved enough as a PCC to be able to identify the difference. And then once you have identified that difference, if you're recognizing that this is going to be a great patient, but they just need more handholding, walk into every conversation that you're having. I mean across the board, but especially with them with additional grace and patience and know that more questions are going to arise with this type of person and be as clear and as detailed as possible with everything that you're telling them.

Andrea (21:59):
Clarity is kindness.

Alli (22:00):
Exactly.

Andrea (22:01):
How many times do we say that clarity is kindness,

Alli (22:03):
Yes. So make sure that everything that you tell them, you're explaining this is why we do this. And I love always providing the why because for people like that, they're very appreciative and you can debunk a lot of their questions before they even raise them. And then they're going to see that you recognize the type of person that they are and that you're trying to be helpful for them and it's going to naturally ease that anxiety. And then another thing is just emphasize kind of the relationship piece of your communication with them so that they have a lot of trust in you. And when somebody that has that high anxiety knows that the other person on the other side of this is consistent with them, they know what they're talking about and they're going to always have the right answers. Or if they don't, they're going to find the right answers. They're automatically going to disarm a little bit more and know that you're going to provide them with what they need so they have peace in that.

Andrea (22:59):
It's just as you were talking through all of this, it just reiterates what an important role, a patient concierge liaison at the front and this patient care coordinator role is in a aesthetic practice. Not only do you need to know about the procedures and how they work and what the preparation is and what the recovery is and all these types of things, you also have to have emotional intelligence and be able to read people and be able to experience the process through their eyes so that you can meet them where they are and really hold up any loose ends of anxiety like you were saying, or any issues that they're having. So it's not just about this transaction of this is what we do, this is how much it is, this is how much downtime you have, it's really who are they as a human being?

(23:50):
How do we connect with them and meet them where they are and appreciate whatever barriers or anxieties they may have. And in that PCC role, the very best of you that are doing that on a day in day basis, which I have the absolute honor to work with dozens of these ladies across the nation, they are the people that are connecting and able to identify and really not feed into the anxieties, but understand them so that they can then help the patients work through them as they're going through this really big life changing decision. Yeah. Do you have any stories specifically of strategies that you've used to deescalate a situation with a patient?

Alli (24:30):
I would say again, just make sure you first listen and allow them to talk. Don't try to cut them off. Don't try to cut them short. And then the biggest thing for me and a little switch that I had to make in my brain that was extremely helpful is just it's never you versus this person. It's you and this person versus the problem. And that's whether it is a challenging patient that we need to break up with, or if it's someone that's just high anxiety and we want to get them in surgery and we want to get them all the answers, no matter what, everything that you're approaching, like you said, we're approaching it with human connection forward and just knowing that together, you and I are going to solve this. It's not something that needs to cause tension between you and us or you and our team. We're a team now and we're all going to get through this together.

Andrea (25:22):
And then for those patients that we just don't want to get through it together, sometimes that happens. Obviously, none of us are in the business or going to have a business if we're always looking for patients to fire by any means. How would you suggest that our listeners bring this attention and have a process, bring it to their leadership and say, I really don't think this is a good fit.

Alli (25:49):
Make sure you have as much detail as possible as you're approaching your leader. You don't want to just come to your leader and be like, I don't like this girl. Yeah, this person doesn't feel like a good fit because that's first of all, not a valid reason to get rid of somebody. You need to have actual reason for why this person's not a good fit. So that goes way back to making sure you're notating everything that you're doing. So when these red flags are occurring multiple times, you have a track record to be able to present, so have all your ducks in a row and then come to your leader and say, Hey, this person inquired for X, Y, Z, I don't feel like they're a good fit for this practice or this procedure, or whatever it is. That's kind of striking them out, and here's exactly why. Do you have any feedback? If not, I think we should end this relationship and I don't know, because the one that sits in that chair, if there's anything additional you would expect. And then furthermore, what do you do with that when somebody does bring that to you and what are kind of your next steps?

Andrea (26:53):
Yeah, great question. So what's absolutely critical is exactly what you just said, is that we need written documentation of why this person may not be a good fit for the practice because again, we stay in business. Most of us are completely fee for service by serving patients and by completing procedures and generating revenue. So from the business side, it's not like we're just like, ah, we don't want to work. We're just going to fire these patients left and right from a leadership standpoint, definitely need you to bring more than just one instance of why you don't think this patient is a good fit. So whether it's more than one instance in experience that you had personally with them, for me, I prefer if it's more than one person that has had not great experiences and you all work together, so you kind of know, oh, here comes Susie.

(27:48):
Oh, I wonder how this is going to go today. She's coming for pre-op, everybody brace themselves. If that's the way that we're feeling about this, obviously bring all that information. And as I kind of alluded to earlier, the small handful of patients that we would have every few years that were like this, the way I handled it that I think actually worked really well was just for me to have a conversation with a patient. If they were in office, I would prefer to do it face-to-face or just go in the exam room, sit down, be really warm and friendly, feel out the energy, start asking some questions about really what their goals are, how they found out about us. Reiterate a lot of stuff that you had spoken with them and just try and figure out are they happy to be here? Do they have realistic or unrealistic expectations?

(28:39):
Because that's really what we're trying to combat at the end of the day is do people have realistic expectations about the process and the outcome? Because if they don't, we're setting everybody up for failure. So if you go through this conversation and you see like, Ooh, there are some red flags. They think that they're going to look like Jennifer Aniston when they walk out of here, and I mean even after surgery, for most of us, that's just not going to be realistic or well, they start talking badly about the team and their experience with one and or another person. Then we start to have the conversation about, well, are you happy to be here? Do you think we're going to be able to meet your goals and meet your expectation of the experience and the outcome that you want to have? Because we want you, when you're done and healed and recovered, we want you to just be absolutely thrilled that you came and that you were a part of our practice and a part of the family here.

(29:36):
And if they can't say that and they're like, well, I really don't like that one and I don't like this one, and I saw some before and afters that I was not happy about and I can't believe that those scars are blah, blah, blah, blah, blah on this one, then that's where we really pumped the brakes. We're like, you know what? Maybe we should postpone this and just kind of sit on it, think about it for a little while because our goal is for you to be happy and you're already going in expecting things to go wrong and having maybe some doubts. And so we don't want to move forward until you're a hundred percent on board that we're going to be able to give you the result and the experience that you're looking for. Sometimes we have difficult patients because they're just like over the top as far as needing some really additional handholding. What about the patients that are difficult because they seem really great, but then they cancel, they reschedule, they cancel, they reschedule. To me, that's also very difficult. How do you best handle that?

Alli (30:37):
I think that's the importance of having policies and procedures in place. Somebody who never will recommend. If I'm leading someone, I'll never recommend saying that to a patient like, oh, our policy is because that just sounds like icky or providing a concierge experience, we should not really be saying that. But in certain situations, yeah, it's nice to be able to lean on that and communicate it in a more productive manner. So when you do have somebody like that, sometimes we can do favors too because on the front end it is a sales role, so we want to be their friend. And so sometimes somebody will call us within our cancellation period and they really shouldn't be getting a refund or something, but it really is an emergency and maybe we'll extend a little grace. And then if that person abuses that and tries that again, that's when it becomes problematic.

(31:32):
So first of all, if you're ever going to do a favor or you're ever going to try to be friendly, make sure you're communicating that you're doing a favor. Like, Hey, just so you know, our policy is it's a 48 hour cancellation policy. We're already within that 48 hours, so we shouldn't really be refunding this right now. We shouldn't really be rescheduling this without a penalty, but I totally understand your circumstances, so I'd love to get you a better spot that makes more sense for you, but just know in the future we won't be able to do it again. So set yourself up for that success so somebody's not a repeat offender with, I love that going against the policies, I love it. And then if it does happen again, just be like, Hey, remember last time we talked about the policy? And unfortunately since this is a second time, we do have to go ahead and follow that, and that was going to prevent it from happening a third time. So if it does happen a second time, you already set yourself up and you don't feel like the bad guy. It's easier to communicate that way.

Andrea (32:29):
That couldn't have been said any better. Way to go, Alli.

Alli (32:32):
Yay.

Andrea (32:34):
Perfect. So as we're wrapping up here, what do you think is the one thing that we need to take our practice and into our day to put into action as far as difficult patients are concerned?

Alli (32:48):
I would say let's get over the fear of parting ways with a challenging prospect. I think that, again, at the end of the day, and in the PCC perspective, this is a sales role. And so we don't want to lose opportunities. We do want to get these people what they want and we want to connect them with the right resources. But if somebody is consistently problematic, do not be afraid to end that relationship before it does start. And that means if those are very significant red, so work on your deciphering between this is a red flag person and this is just a challenging person who can hold their hand a little bit more because I will say it's extremely difficult to mend a broken relationship after the surgery's already done. That's something that we learned in practice. It's a lot easier to end something before it starts than it is to have a unhappy postoperative patient and trying to mend that relationship is going to be challenging for you, your entire intake team for doc, your managerial team, nobody wants to be in that situation.

Andrea (33:51):
Absolutely. I was just going to add that point on the very end is that if we're having difficulties upfront before we're doing surgery, just imagine what they're going to be like at their worst, which is post-op. People feel like shit, they look like shit. They're wondering truly. I mean, you're wondering, what the heck did I do to myself? You go through an emotional rollercoaster postoperatively. I've been through plenty of them. I get it. And we give grace, and that's why nurses are incredible because they literally help people at their very worst. When we are feeling our worst, we're mentally, emotionally, physically drained. This is not Disneyland by any means. And so if we're not at our best at the very beginning and we're trying to get this process going, how are we going to be on the backend for our clinical team and for our doctor and for the people that are going to be caring for our patients at their very worst?

(34:48):
So thank you so much, Alli. I think all of those points are very valid. Hopefully that's helpful for our listeners. You're not alone and there are ways that we can adjust and that we can handle these not so great patient experiences. I don't want to dwell on bad patients because I think more often than not, we have great patients, but it is really important that we just address, yes, this does happen sometimes. Just remember, don't take it personally and meet people where they are. I think those are my two biggest takeaways here. So perfect, Alli. Once again, I know you've been on here with me several times. All the links are in our show notes, but if you have a question or anything like that, how do people find you on the interwebs?

Alli (35:36):
I'm on LinkedIn, Allison Petriella, and you can send me a message, reach out that way, and I'd love to chat.

Andrea (35:41):
Perfect. Thank you so much. And if you guys, as listeners, if you have questions or you have a sticky patient situation you went through and you want some feedback, even if you have calls like Allie and I do this all day every day as far as helping coach people up and through some of these situations. So feel free to send them to us through our website, which is practicelandpodcast.com, and we'll be more than happy to reach out and help you personally too. Thanks so much.

Blake Lucas (36:11):
Got a wild customer service story or a sticky patient situation? Send us a message or voicemail. If your tale makes it into our "She did what?" segment, we'll send a thank you gift you'll actually love. Promise no cheap swag here.

Andrea (36:23):
Are you one of us? Subscribe for new episode notifications and more at practicelandpodcast.com. New episodes drop weekly on YouTube and everywhere you can listen to podcasts.