How to Survive (and Thrive) When Your Leader’s in a Mood

Andrea Watkins (00:04):
Well, hi there. I am Andrea Watkins, and if you're listening to this while juggling three patient calls, checking in a couple patients, taking a payment, selling skincare, and trying to catch your doctor in between procedures, you might be working in an aesthetic practice.

Blake Lucas (00:18):
And I'm Blake Lucas, and this is Practiceland. This is not your doctor's podcast.

Andrea Watkins (00:24):
All right, well, welcome back to Practiceland. Thank you for joining us and greetings, hope everybody's having a great day out there. If you haven't already, don't forget to subscribe anywhere that you're listening to us here, including our YouTube channel. We're on Spotify, we're also on Apple Podcasts. So today we have a very spicy topic to talk about and we've got Alli Petriella back here to provide some insight and to share some great conversations. So today we just want to talk about something that can be a little touchy and that's really going to be dealing with difficult bosses and surgeons. So Alli, first of all, welcome back to the show. Thank you. So happy to have you here. Happy to be here. Awesome. Let's just start the conversation with talking about why we shouldn't necessarily just open up communication with others or with our peers or with our colleagues about sharing past war stories about our boss.

Allison Petriella (01:28):
Yeah, I think just out of mutual respect for both your yourself and your previous employer, or even if it's your current employer, there's always two sides to every story, and I don't think anybody in our industry is intentionally out there to cause issues and start conflict, so things will happen in the aesthetic practice. It's so easy because it is such a small intimate environment majority of the time, and it's a close knit team. So miscommunications happen and emotions get escalated, and I think when we enter into the world of aesthetics, we need to be understanding of that and we need to be ready for that. And when things do hit the fan, I think we need to all have the maturity of not going and running and venting about it to others and make sure you have a safe place that you're venting to because it doesn't always sound good when we're just telling our side of the story and we don't want to make anyone look bad or anything like that.

Andrea Watkins (02:25):
Yeah, definitely. I think too, what it can create, whether intentionally or unintentionally is an environment where the boss or the surgeon can kind of become this enemy where the team kind of gangs up and then they justify anything they may or may not want to be involved in or do that is a part of their role by saying and using some experience or some past story that was passed down through the generations about what a boss did one day or what a surgeon did one day or an owner of a practice did. So taking it back, I've already used the word a couple times, which is weird, probably kind of on our outline, but personally for me, I don't love the word boss.

Allison Petriella (03:10):
I also don't love it. I feel like I'm traveling back in time. You know what I mean? That sounds like such an old school term, like, oh, my boss told me to do this. My leader, I think is a better word, even manager can be weird.

Andrea Watkins (03:26):
I feel like I work at McDonald's. If somebody, and I did work at McDonald's when I was in high school, but then I think of our floor manager, our shift manager, not the person who's leading you through this.

Allison Petriella (03:36):
Yeah, you think in service environment, if someone says to you, let me ask my manager, let me ask my boss. I'm like, that feels like a job. If this is a career, if someone says to me, oh, let me go ask my vp, let me go ask our COO. If anything, if you're talking to a patient, call them that other person by their title.

Andrea Watkins (03:56):
Oh, I totally agree. I'm a big fan of the word leader. So we're going to dive into dealing with difficult leaders or difficult surgeons. Why do you think it is? Because I've been in several situations from the outside where I'll be coaching young ladies and they may say, oh, today is not a good day, or the surgeon is maybe having a bad day, and there are people in the practice that are really feeling the burden of whatever may be going on there. What is your experience with that ally as far as being on the outside and being able to help people through that?

Allison Petriella (04:34):
The mood of the practice trickles down from the top. They do set the tone. So it's okay to acknowledge that sometimes we do have those days where that person's having an icky day and we're all feeling it. So I would say that's kind of the first step. Whenever a practice is like we get on the call and they're like, it's not a good day, it's not a good week, okay, this is fine. And all we can do is advise them to do all they can do, which is stay positive and be helpful. Sometimes your leader has things going on outside of work that have nothing to do with us, and we're taking that and internalizing it. So we don't want to make it into a bigger issue for the staff, and we don't want to make up stories or anything. We just want to be available to them. So I always like to pop in just like, if you need help with anything, let me know, but don't ask questions. Why are you having a bad day?

Andrea Watkins (05:27):
Did I do something wrong? Yeah, what happened? Am I getting fired? Right?

Allison Petriella (05:31):
Can you imagine if I popped in your door or even I put myself in the leadership seat for a moment, and if someone's like, what's going on? I'm like, just I can't tell you. So it's just knowing to be helpful, to have an optimistic mindset and not to internalize and make it more negative than it needs to be. We don't need to start spiraling, we just need to focus on what needs to be done and doing it the right way and being available to them as they feel better about engaging again.

Andrea Watkins (06:02):
Yeah, I think key to all of the things you just said is not internalizing it, which is hard for a lot of us, especially those of us that are people pleasers and we want everybody to be having the best day ever every day. And if they're not, then it must, of course it means I did something wrong. No, the world is more than just each of us not internalizing it and also leading into the next phase of this is sometimes, yes, we're going to have bad days. You're going to have a bad day. I'm going to have a bad day. Hopefully we've developed really trustful relationships where we can just be open about it and say, Hey, listen, I got some stuff going on. I'm sorry, but I'm not in the mood. But that also takes to what can we control ourselves, which I think a huge word that we all need to remind ourselves about is grace. Not only giving it to others but also to ourselves when some of those days go arise. So when it comes to dealing with our leaders and maybe surgeons that are having a bad day or something like that, providing some grace, how do you go about that in the most effective or easiest pathway?

Allison Petriella (07:16):
I think when it comes to grace, that's a lot of internal work, so it's a lot of having confidence in what you're doing and knowing. I also think it really starts with having that good relationship with your leader or with your surgeon. So as soon as you start, don't be afraid to really dive into that relationship. A lot of new employees, I would say in an aesthetic practice can be kind of scared of the surgeon. It's super, super common. We don't want to talk to him. We don't want to, oh my God, doc walked by the desk and I didn't know how to act. I freaked out. That is so common.

Andrea Watkins (07:51):
Why did he come up here? Or why did she come up here? They wanted to say hi, they're human.

Allison Petriella (07:56):
Yes, they're just another human. And the moment you realize that and you can start to establish an actual good relationship with 'em, it's going to get a lot better and you're not going to be scared of 'em, and when they're having a bad day, you'll still be able to make it through the communication. So I would say really prioritize that relationship with your surgeon and with your leader, because it's going to make it that much easier when we do have challenges or somebody's having an off day to sit down and just respectfully say, Hey, it seems like something might be going on. Is there anything that I can do to help or is there anything? Do you want to talk about anything? Can I take something off your plate?

Andrea Watkins (08:34):
Yeah. Is there something I can take off your plate today? That's typically from a leadership perspective because being a leader can very much be lonely. A lot of the times that if someone you have established that relationship and someone comes to me or comes to you and says, Hey, is there something that I can do to help today? Is there anything I can take off your plate? You will win a bazillion brownie points. How would you Ali suggest maybe changing your approach a little bit, other than just saying like, Hey, is there something I can do to help you, but maybe just the way that you tread through the practice or what would you suggest as a good modification of your just approach? Maybe in those times that could get a little bit more challenging?

Allison Petriella (09:19):
I would say be mindful of the energy that you're bringing around. So oftentimes, like we said, that some certain person will set the tone for the day and then will drag our energy down, and then our down energy is going to rub off on somebody else and they're going to be like, Allie walked by my office and she's being a jerk today. It'll trickle down. So keep your energy right and just stay ready and positive and open to communication. So if you are going to let that moon drag you into a darker negative place and then you just start focusing on your own work and you're not wanting to communicate with anyone, what's going to make that serious tension occur with the entire team? So just like, oh, nothing's going on. Just act normal. And if somebody comes up to talk to you, be ready for that communication. Be optimistic, be positive, and be leading everybody else to act that way instead of just like, did you guys see Doc today?

Andrea Watkins (10:16):
Yeah, then you're just spreading it. You're literally lighting it down, lighting it on a fire and throwing gas on it. Just take it, move on. You can control you. You can control your own energy. To that point, while you were talking, I was actually trying to look it up because Heather Bedell, she is the owner of a multi-location med spa down in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and I worked with her for a really long time. We became friends following each other on Instagram just yesterday. She just posted this awesome thing on her story that I loved the gist of it said, it's crazy that everybody that you know and love in your life believes in wifi. They believe that there is this magical thing that you cannot see that connects you to everything around you, but yet people will deny that your energy makes an impact on those around you. And to me, that was so aha moment, and it's so true who you are and the bubble of energy that you have, whatever color you're showing up as that day, we can't see it, but we know that it's there.

Allison Petriella (11:25):
And I think that goes beyond. It's easy to listen to what we're saying right now and just be like, oh, I'm not a leader in the practice. That doesn't matter for me. This is for everybody. This is for the receptionist. Your mood determines everyone's walking past you all day. And I see, and a lot of practices, that's kind of the first person that gets affected when doc's not having a good day, maybe then the receptionist starts to feel it and then they start to act accordingly, and then the patients are picking up on that, and then anyone that walks by the front office is also like, Ooh, she's not in a good mood. She's our epicenter, so something must be off. So this is for everybody. Take that energy very seriously and be mindful of what you're putting out despite whatever's being put towards you.

Andrea Watkins (12:08):
Yeah. So what have you found helpful, Allie, as far as communicating with somebody who is hard to approach or maybe has a different communication style than you?

Allison Petriella (12:21):
Yeah, I would say with talking with someone that's challenging to approach the conversation by stating why you're here and what the goal is of the conversation. So when you have a desired outcome that is known, you guys can get there together. If we just walk in and we're like, what's going on today? That's not going to get us anywhere.

Andrea Watkins (12:43):
Especially with leaders and surgeons because they're busy people. They have a lot on their mind, and most people in those roles, yes, they're not completely opposed to chitchat, but they also have so much going on in their minds that we need to kind of cut the shit and get straight to the point so that we can really make sure we're being respectful of other people's time

Allison Petriella (13:06):
And also knowing the different personalities in your office because people will receive things differently and they want information presented to them differently. I can just say from being in the practice myself, my COO wanted things presented differently than the way my surgeon wanted things presented. And so I need to know going into it, okay, I'm going to be talking to Andrea, so these are the pieces that I need to have and this is the voice that I need to carry with it, whereas I can spare some of those details if I'm going to be going to talk to my surgeon. So know the different personalities, take the time to actually know what works best for everybody, and then when you go into a conversation, say, Hey, this is what's going on and this is what I hope to walk away with this from so and present.

Andrea Watkins (13:52):
I can think of very specific instances where we're dealing with maybe difficult leaders or difficult surgeons and there's an issue that needs to be resolved. Another pro tip, do not go to a leader or to a surgeon or a business owner with a problem emotionally. Well, yes, don't go to them emotionally, but it's going to happen. There are always going to be things that need to be improved upon or a blind spot that we need to fill When you go and identify, Hey, this is what happened, or this is what needs to be changed. Never ever, ever, ever go to a leader or surgeon or a business owner with a problem if you don't at least have two solutions, three, preferably with your recommended course of action. You don't have to be right, you don't have to be the person with all the answers, but it is going to show so much more for you as a professional, as an individual. They'll actually start to trust you and believe in you more and more and more. Some of those difficult leaders, surgeon, business owners, they are really hard to please, and the way that you prove yourself is by not taking problems to them. You need to identify a problem, but bring solutions more than one and bring your recommendation from those options.

Allison Petriella (15:20):
I would also just add onto that as leaders in the practice, just speaking to a different seat to foster that always asking, Andrea did a great job of this, and that conditioned me whenever I would bring something to her instead of just giving me a solution, you would always say, okay, well what do you think is, what's your recommendation for how we move forward here? So always asking that question as it gets people thinking. Some people go into these roles and they don't really know that they should come with a proposed solution. They're thinking of you as go to the boss and ask what to do. We want to foster the environment where it's like, no, come to the leader with your recommendation and then we can let you know if that's a good idea or not. So whenever someone comes in and they don't have a recommendation, just say, okay, what's your recommended course of action? What would you like to see different? What would be ideal here? Just to get the whole team thinking that way, and then they'll start bringing you those requests the proper way.

Andrea Watkins (16:15):
And as a leader who's led lots of different groups of people, I do that and I think it's really important for any leader to do it obviously, so that you're flexing those muscles of your team and you're empowering them to actually have a say in how things can evolve and improve in the practice. But also when I'm hiring people, I don't hire people to tell 'em what to do. I hire them because I believe in them, and I know that no one knows your job better than you do. No one knows the struggles, the challenges, the wins, everything that you're going through every day because they don't sit in your chair. So as a leader, I think it's just absolutely critical. Yes, empower your team, help them flex those muscles, but also just acknowledge, validate, and appreciate the fact that you have really smart people on your team, so you shouldn't be telling them what to do all the time.

(17:06):
You can collaborate, and again, that's where that word team comes back into play. Let's work as a team, let's collaborate and we'll find a better solution. Then you could probably come up on your own or I could come up with on my own. That kind of takes us to the perspective thing, which I definitely want to touch on because I think it's really important that all of us, we kind of get stuck in our lens, right? We're only seeing the world through our own eyes, but I think one thing that can really help us if we're in difficult situations with difficult leaders or surgeons or business owners, is to take ourselves out of our own chair, flex the muscles to increase your emotional intelligence and think about what is their perspective? Because leaders, surgeons, business owners, they truly a lot of times feel like they have the weight of the world on their shoulders, and in those instances when things go awry or whatever, yeah, probably means a little bit more to them because it's not only their business and their legacy, but it's literally the entire team. Everything that we're doing and cultivating together as a team that grows into us being able to provide the security and the benefits and the pay for the people that have become our family and work on our team, which is you. So I think taking ourselves out of our own chair and saying, yeah, they're probably dealing with a lot. It can be really helpful too. What's your experience with that, Alli?

Allison Petriella (18:43):
Definitely, yes. I think that always going into things as well, whether it's the conversation or just your own expectations in your head, realizing that however you are seeing it is just one way to see it. So whenever you're welcoming a conversation with them, always going to it, how are they maybe receiving this? I know what I'm meaning to put out, but let's consider what could possibly be happening in their mind and be considerate of that when you present something or when you're even just putting together a story in your head of what's going on in the office at any time.

Andrea Watkins (19:16):
We previously did an episode on this next topic, this next question, which is what about when the boss or the leader of the practice is the doctor's spouse? Oftentimes with small businesses, I've had several clients, we had Dr Camp and his wife Sarah on earlier episode of practice land where the surgeon is one spouse and then the maybe COO or practice administrator, leader of the practice is the other spouse. What would your recommendation be for handling a situation like that?

Allison Petriella (19:55):
I would say just remain professional, and if you can in your mind, try not to go into those things thinking, oh, this is his wife or this is her husband. We can't think with that. When we're presenting things, we need to think of things as like, these are the seats that these people are sitting in, and no matter if this person's married to this person or not, this is a message that I need to deliver and what's the most professional way to deliver this?

Andrea Watkins (20:22):
That kind of leads into our next topic, or the next question that I want to address is when you're in a situation, you're dealing with a difficult leader or a difficult surgeon and you've kept it professional, you've done all these things, you've removed yourself out of the emotional side and you say, Hey, this is affecting my ability to perform my job, or whatever the case may be. There, we've done all of these steps where we really want to make this work, but we're just kind of in this situation where we feel our hands are tied. How do you recommend moving forward or what are the steps that we can take if we find ourselves in that position?

Allison Petriella (21:04):
If you've really done everything that you could and you've really communicated and you've really shown your full posture to your leader and to everyone involved, it might be time to step away and find something that more so aligns with your values and what you're looking to do long term. But I would make sure that you have done all the communication possible and you've presented fully your stance on what's going on, and if it gets to a point where you have done everything you can make that decision for yourself and is this environment still for me?

Andrea Watkins (21:38):
I think two possibilities that we could deal with is you look at, maybe you do just have a very difficult relationship with the leader or the owner of the practice, and it's just constant struggle. You have to make a choice of is everything that I'm getting out of this experience and situation worth this difficult relationship that I have with the leader, which it very well could be. You could have a wonderful team around you, you could work with incredible people, you could love your patients, you could get paid well, you could get great benefits, all these other needs could be getting met, and then you could be in a situation where you just do not see eye to eye with your leader or surgeon, but you can accept that because of all of these other great things. Or you make the choice that there's not enough other good that's happening in my daily life that's filling my cup enough to make it worth it to also be dealing with this difficult leader surgeon situation. And that's when, to your point, Allie, you just say, okay, that's all right. Not all people are meant for each other, and that's okay because we're all different. We all do have different communication styles, superpowers, so if you've tried everything that you can and you just find yourself constantly beating your head against the wall, then you have your choice. Accept or reject and then make the moves necessary to find a place where you're really comfortable.

Allison Petriella (23:15):
I love that.

Andrea Watkins (23:16):
Coming to the surgeon specifically, and I kind of just touched on this a little bit, but what do you think makes working with surgeons a little bit different than just working with your everyday? Anybody else that may or may not be in the practice?

Allison Petriella (23:32):
I would say their expertise is so particular, so it's not like working with just your office manager or a receptionist reporting to a pcc. Maybe that's different because we are doing the same types of things every day. A surgeon has a very niche skillset and they know a lot about one thing, and so we often think that because of that, we're not on the same wavelength for communication. And sometimes just like you mentioned a second ago, we might not be, some surgeons just do not communicate the same as we do as whoever we are. So I would just say that their skillset being so different from ours can make it challenging because we might not feel like we're on the same wavelength.

Andrea Watkins (24:20):
Absolutely. The last question that I think we need to cover today is just from your experience, what are some of the ways that we can anticipate a surgeon's needs and help prevent the conflicts before they even start?

Allison Petriella (24:33):
I think establishing a very strong relationship with them right out of the gate and knowing what their needs are, and I think don't be afraid to have a sit down with your doc and to ask them what your ideal day, what does your ideal surgery look like? What does your ideal consultation look like if you are the PCC? I wish I had done that before I started doing consultations. I waited until after I had done a few consultations and I screwed up a few times to be like, alright, what am I doing That's upsetting Betterly than never. Yeah, one little thing. I had the sound on my laptop and I got a little email that came through during a consultation and that was something that the doc that I was with didn't really like, and I'm like, oh my gosh, of course you wouldn't like that. Why would you enjoy that? But I wish I knew how particular that thing was for him before. So I would say just talk about it before you do things so that you know what their expectations are.

Andrea Watkins (25:32):
I think that boiled down into one word of everything I've ever learned. Preparation. Preparation is key when we're interacting with our surgeons, when we're interacting with our providers, when we're interacting with our leaders, is really, preparation is key. Wrapping things up. So what would be one big takeaway for you, Alli, from working with difficult leaders or surgeons?

Allison Petriella (25:58):
Yeah, I would just say controlling what you can control and trying to stay positive, because when things hit the fan in the practice, the last thing you need to do is get negative and bring down the energy as well. So stay positive, control what you can control and stay confident in everything that you are doing so that you guys can get through to smoother sailing.

Andrea Watkins (26:19):
Well, thank you so much, Alli. So glad that you're here with us again today. How can we find you online again?

Allison Petriella (26:27):
I'm on LinkedIn. It's Allison Petriella on there.

Andrea Watkins (26:30):
Okay, perfect. And everybody listening, just a reminder, if you have questions, if you have sticky situations, anything that's going on in your day to day in your practice, go to practicelandpodcast.com, send us a message. A lot of these questions we've been talking about are coming specifically from our listeners and what they're experiencing and really want us to point to when we're having these discussions. So please go to practicelandpodcast.com, let us know what we can help you with because it's truly why we're building this community is to just have a platform for those of us that are in the practice doing the work every day with the surgeons, with the teams, with the patients. So we are here to help. Alright, thanks. We'll talk to you soon, Alli.

Allison Petriella (27:16):
Yay. Thank you.

Andrea Watkins (27:17):
Yep. Bye.

Blake Lucas (27:20):
Got a wild customer service story or a sticky patient situation? Send us a message or voicemail. If your tale makes it into our "She Did What?" segment, we'll send a thank you gift you'll actually love. Promise no cheap swag here.

Andrea Watkins (27:32):
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