When To Walk Away From a Toxic Job

Andrea (00:04):
Well, hi there. I am Andrea Watkins. And if you're listening to this, while juggling three patient calls, checking in a couple patients, taking a payment, selling skincare, and trying to catch your doctor in between procedures, you might be working in an aesthetic practice.

Blake (00:18):
And I'm Blake Lucas, and this is Practiceland. This is not Your doctor's podcast. Hi everyone, and welcome back to Practiceland. Once again, thank you so much for listening, and please remember to share Practiceland with your friends and coworkers. Today, we got a fan favorite back. We got Kelcy Heringer back to talk to us about some amazing career insights, things that you can use in your everyday to help advance you or help you accomplish those goals. Kelcy, thank you so much for coming back. It's great to have you.

Kelcy (00:49):
Thanks for having me, Blake.

Blake (00:51):
Absolutely. So what do you have for us today? What's been bugging you or what's something that is kind of top of mind for you?

Kelcy (00:58):
Well, it's both. It bugs me and it's top of mind is

Blake (01:02):
Perfect.

Kelcy (01:03):
I have a client that we've been working through a challenging situation. She is working in a work environment where she is constantly being told that she is lucky to have her job, and reminded of that daily.

Blake (01:17):
I've been there.

Kelcy (01:21):
You have?

Blake (01:21):
Oh, I've totally, yeah.

Kelcy (01:22):
We can talk about it.

Blake (01:24):
I spent probably eight years in a company like that and probably three or four too many.

Kelcy (01:32):
What finally got you to change?

Blake (01:34):
I think I just wasn't really ready to realize that this place that for a long time was home for me. I loved it. I was very passionate about the job. And also too the people, there's some people that I worked with that were fantastic, but there was maybe just the leadership that was there that kept me from really being able to accomplish what I wanted to accomplish. It kind of came a point, and it actually was a former boss of mine that came back around and was talking to me and let me know. He is like, Hey, I think you're kind of just spinning your wheels. I think you've moved beyond this and it might be time to find something else. And that really was kind of the kick or the push that I needed to start looking for something else that could take me to the next level.

Kelcy (02:22):
Totally. And I so feel you there. I've been in that same spot too, and when I talk with my clients, the question that we are talking about today, it is so hard. How do you know when it is time to leave? And we have all these thoughts and somewhat excuses of why we stay, but it is a really hard spot to be.

Blake (02:43):
Oh, absolutely. Tell us about the person that you're working with. So she's working in a situation where they're just saying, you're so lucky to be here. What was maybe some advice that you gave her to maybe give her that moment of like, no, I think they're wrong.

Kelcy (03:02):
Immediately what came to mind is you want to find a culture where it's flipped, right? They feel so lucky to have you, but immediately when you hear something like that, you are definitely in, it may sound harmless, but truly when I hear that it is a control tactic. That comment is there to make her feel small, make her feel compliant, and second guess her worth.

Blake (03:34):
Yeah, absolutely.

Kelcy (03:35):
So that is what we've been talking about, that sometimes there are these passive aggressive, more silent ways, and so it's hard to decipher is this toxic or is this not? But for sure that is a toxic move.

Blake (03:49):
What have you learned, and maybe it was the hard way about working in a toxic culture like that?

Kelcy (03:55):
You kind of said it, you learned the hard way after those eight years, I did the same thing myself for five years in a toxic environment. And you got to, I will never again make excuses for toxic behavior because you start to accommodate it and over time it'll chip away at your confidence and it will abandon your values and beliefs.

Blake (04:21):
Oh wow.

Kelcy (04:22):
That is one thing. Number two, if I could go back and something I will never do again is I would never confide in coworkers without discernment. It makes it even worse because just because somebody is nice, it doesn't mean that they are safe. And as I look back, oversharing with the wrong people, the thoughts of toxicity or this issue, that got turned into ammunition. And so I would tell myself, discernment isn't paranoia here. It's wisdom. And I would also never, ever, at the most important one, never try to win toxic people over. So if somebody is mistreating, undermining, or continuously disrespecting me or others, I will never try to win their approval because they're not somebody that I value and respect in a leader.

Blake (05:16):
Wow. Yeah, and as you're saying all these things, I'm thinking what great advice, not even just in the workplace, but this is starting to even spill over into personal advice. You should become almost like a therapist there, but the personal relationships where you think about the person that just doesn't, they're just not worth your time. They aren't able to remove themselves from that toxicity. Similar to that you're in this environment, sometimes it can be hard to recognize the signs if I'm in a toxic place and I need to get out. How, or what advice do you give someone to help them recognize maybe the red flags?

Kelcy (05:56):
So there's probably 50 to a hundred, right?

Blake (05:59):
So many.

Kelcy (05:59):
I think some of the most common are is your manager and colleagues backstabbing and gossiping? That's a pretty good telltale sign. Do you feel unheard or shut down when you bring up ideas or feedback or you're advocating for yourself? Probably the one that is the easiest is do you feel stressed, anxious, emotionally? Do you dread going to work or do you feel physically ill? Healthy environments, foster psychological safety. And so if you're having any of those feelings, that is a very good sign to listen to your instincts to say, Hey, I should really be asking myself, is it time to go? And if you aren't respected, if you have value misalignment with these folks, if you don't trust and respect your leaders, those are really good signs that you should be trying to look for a new home. And then also, if the people that you do respect are leaving that is going to just make the problem worse, both growth wise for the company, but stifle your happiness. So those are places where I think it's pretty clear if one or more of those things are happening that you're in a toxic environment and you should absolutely be looking to go elsewhere.

Blake (07:18):
One of the first things you mentioned or you brought up is about just gossip within the company, I think. Is there a difference or how do you know the difference between just complaining about the job? I think coworkers will come around and they'll kind of lament about all the things, oh, this and that, or I hate this part of it. And then actually toxic gossip. I think there's some of that is just maybe a little trauma bonding between just the job part of the job and then maybe, how's that different from something like, Hey, this is actually destroying the culture of the company.

Kelcy (07:53):
I would say if it's isolated to one or two people, okay, right.

Blake (07:58):
Yeah.

Kelcy (07:58):
But if this is thematic across the leaders, that's when I think it is like, oh, no, no, no, no. Never again in my career will I work with a leader who is a leader at that level and is gossiping. That's just not somebody that I respect. But I mean, we all gossip. There is what you call trauma bonding, that is part of building trust, being able to vent in people. So I think the biggest shift is when it is really widespread and part of the culture and part of the DNA of the company is to be gossipy and back stabby. But maybe I can talk a little bit about what is the impact, if you avoid those signs and you stay, what is the toll that that can take on your career and your mental health?

Blake (08:54):
Oh, absolutely.

Kelcy (08:55):
By ignoring those signs, which are easy to do because we can always say, you probably did it when you stayed for eight years. You're like, this is just a rough patch, or things are hard everywhere, and we self excuse through it.

Blake (09:09):
I would even say right after that or a few years after that, I was another role and I was only there for six months before I knew, I was like, it's time to go. This is not what I thought. I mean, it's so hard though, especially because we all need a paycheck, and so there's so much justification that comes through. Love to hear your thoughts on what the impact of staying in a toxic culture can be to your career, mental health, all of that.

Kelcy (09:37):
Definitely, career stagnation is a big one. So staying in a toxic environment, it absolutely stalls your career because you get trapped in survival mode, not growth mode. And over time, your contributions go unnoticed, your opportunities for advancement are missed, and the longer you stay, the more you miss out on your career advancement, the more you miss out on promotions, raises, and the ability to push your career forward. And then of course, there's the mental and emotional toll that we touched on, which is the stress of toxicity is terrible and wears you down. It's constant conflict, lack of support, criticism, that takes a huge toll on your mental health and it leads to burnout. It leans to anxiety and self-doubt. You begin to also carry that negativity home with you. And so it can affect not just your work, but also your home life and your other relationships and your own wellbeing. So it absolutely has a negative impact on your quality of life. And then similar to the career stagnation, missed growth opportunities like toxic environments. It's rare that there's a ton of innovation going on. When you're stuck in negativity and micromanagement, you're usually not at a place where you're taking risks, learning from mistakes. It's probably doing something that that person wants to do.

(11:07):
So you're not developing new skills, not being innovative. So you stop growing professionally and personally and your potential starts to diminish. And so staying too long means that you miss out on chances to thrive in a healthier, more supportive environment.

Blake (11:27):
Yeah, absolutely. So you're in this say there's, I bet there's people that are listening to this and they're like, oh my gosh, I am in this spot. I'm recognizing they're like, they're seeing, yeah, I feel that way. I feel this way. How does that person maybe reclaim their power if they find themselves in this situation that we've outlined?

Kelcy (11:47):
Yes. Sorry if you're here, but promise there is so much better waiting for on the other side. So number one,

Blake (11:54):
Yeah, the grass is greener.

Kelcy (11:55):
Exactly. This is a situation where the grass is greener. Find a new home that is number one. And while you're still there, start setting very clear boundaries. The first step is owning, that this is dysfunctional. And that this is not okay, and that this is not your fault and stop trying to fix it. So I can't stand when I read these pieces of content on people staying to try to fix a toxic environment. It doesn't work. If the culture is toxic, you're not going to be the one that comes in there and saves it. So I think that number one is owning it and not trying to make it better.

(12:40):
And then building your exit plan and ramp. And so asking yourself really, what did I learn from here that I will never do again? And what's important to me in my next career move? And there should always be three deal breakers that you write down for your next career move. And then lastly, I would say if you're like, well, I don't know what I'm going to go do next or where to go, and you take those three deal breakers, and then you also ask yourself, what am I awesome at doing? What do I love doing? And where can I get paid for those things that I love doing and that I'm good at doing? And that map up with those three values alignments, that's gold for where you should go next in your career. So get creative and don't be afraid of it. Embrace it as like this is a fun new clean slate opportunity. There's a bazillion opportunities out there waiting for you. So to have the confidence to know that you're going to be okay.

Blake (13:36):
Well, Kelcy, I think this is so top of mind, or so important and relative to people I think that are listening, there's so many of us that find ourselves in the same situation. I know I have a few times in my career and being able to recognize those signs early and understand my own worth and what I want to be able to accomplish and not try to fix it, not being that stuck in that mode can be so helpful in improving people's overall work life balance. As we think about this, I always love to end with one thing that we can take away from what we've talked about. So what is something that you would want to make sure above all else that people remember from today's topic?

Kelcy (14:22):
I recently read a very powerful study on, and I'll tell you the stat, it takes 22 months to recover from a toxic work environment.

Blake (14:34):
Wow.

Kelcy (14:34):
So those beliefs,

Blake (14:36):
That's almost two years.

Kelcy (14:36):
The traumas, the habits those stick with you and 22 months actually is pretty fast. And so I would say remind yourself that every day you are staying in this toxic spot, you are setting yourself back two more years, and maybe that will get you to finally start unlearning survival mode and help you get back your confidence so that you can project forward.

Blake (15:03):
Kelcy, we are so lucky to have you here. Thank you so much for your time. Again, I think you definitely are a fan favorite for a reason.

Kelcy (15:12):
Oh thank you so much. I love being here.

Blake (15:15):
Absolutely. We'll always have you back again. Where can we follow you? Where are you on social media?

Kelcy (15:21):
Yeah. TikTok or Instagram might be easier. Kelcy_Heringer.

Blake (15:25):
Perfect. If you've got questions for us or for Kelcy, of course, you can always go to practicelandpodcast.com and submit those there. We always want to hear user stories. We always want to get answers and questions from you guys, from our listeners. We love you all. Thank you and Practiceland, good luck out there and we'll see you next time. Got a wild customer service story or a sticky patient situation? Send us a message or voicemail. If your tale makes it into our "She did what?" segment, we'll send a thank you gift you'll actually love. Promise, no cheap swag here.

Andrea (15:56):
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