Better Together: How We Learned Everything the Hard Way

Andrea (00:04):
Well, hi there. I am Andrea Watkins. And if you're listening to this, while juggling three patient calls, checking in a couple patients, taking a payment, selling skincare, and trying to catch your doctor in between procedures, you might be working in an aesthetic practice.

Blake (00:18):
And I'm Blake Lucas, and this is Practiceland. This is not your doctor's podcast.

Andrea (00:23):
You're listening to Practiceland. I'm Andrea Watkins and this is not your doctor's podcast. Today we are live at the Aesthetic Meet in Austin. I'd like to introduce you to Jenny Burnley Seestadt and Kacie Killough with me from Restora Plastic Surgery Center right here in Austin. So thank you ladies so much for being here today. I know there's probably a lot going on around the meeting for you. How's it been for you so far?

Kacie (00:48):
It's been great, especially coming to Austin for the meeting is being here.

Andrea (00:52):
Yeah.

Kacie (00:53):
Learn lots of pearls so far. We got a couple more classes today, so

Andrea (00:56):
Could you each tell me a little bit about yourself, just what you do, where you came from, everything like that.

Kacie (01:03):
Well I am an RN and I started off my career actually as a speech pathologist, that's what I got my degree in. But took an interest in wound care and fast forward ended up meeting Dr. Reid and Dr. Gordon and working at their clinic and became a plastic surgery nurse. And one day they were like, we are so busy with surgeries, we cannot do injectables anymore, you need to take over it. And I was like, okay. And so I'm so glad they did and that was, gosh, I've been with them for about 15 years when the best decisions I ever made. I really do enjoy injectables. It's kind of an artistic side to being a nurse, but also you get to educate people and just make them feel good about themselves. So I dunno, I feel fulfilled every day at my job.

Andrea (01:52):
Wonderful. So were they your trainers? Or how did you get into?

Kacie (01:55):
So the first two years I worked at the practice, I was their clinical nurse and so I assisted them in their injectables. So I had a really unique training in that for two years I got to learn with Dr. Gordon and Dr. Reid, two plastic surgeons. So when it was my time to step forward, I was like, okay, well I've definitely had a good training in this.

Andrea (02:15):
What an incredible opportunity. Jenny, why don't you go ahead, let me know a little bit about you.

Jenny (02:20):
I want to say my background started 26 years ago in this industry and I had the privilege of doing FDA research clinical trials with a lot of the lasers that you hear of today. So I have had the privilege of working with many laser modalities. I moved to Austin a little over 11 years ago, been with Restora Austin Plastic Surgery for almost that extensive amount of time. And I've run lasers, I speak and I train.

Andrea (02:49):
Well, I've heard that you're arguably one of the best laser specialists in the world and that you travel around, you train even surgeons and then obviously provide treatments to patients and things like that. So how many days maybe a week are you actually in the practice treating patients with all of this going on in your world?

Jenny (03:09):
Surprisingly, I'm there five days a week, most weeks. I do a lot of my trainings on the weekends. The doctors at Restora have been so good to help support me in that education training practice that I have evolved and started. They have been really good at supporting that. So yeah, I do it on the weekends.

Andrea (03:25):
So tell me a little bit about the practice, how the practice is structured that you guys are in, and then how you work together and work together to help patients get the ultimate best outcomes. Because you do have the laser specialty and the injectable specialty each individually, but how does that work together for patients?

Kacie (03:44):
We work for a plastic surgery practice, which is amazing because patients can come in, they have surgery. We work for two of the best plastic surgeons in Austin, if not the United States, Dr. Reid and Dr. Gordon. It's interesting because come in, they love our practice, they love the doctors and they want to continue getting care through our practice. And so they easily transition to Jenny and I, of course, we've been doing this for so long at Restore, there's a lot of word of mouth patients too, and that's how they come in. But if I consult with a patient, if I meet a patient for the first time, I'm doing a visia analysis because I can Botox you and inject you all day long, but if your skin does not look healthy, then you're not going to look youthful and rejuvenated. So part of my consult is always looking that visia analysis with them, which just shows you all of the little naughty secrets of your skin, your pores, your texture, your sun damage, and then I can

Andrea (04:36):
As you're saying this, I'm covering my face. Please don't look at my face.

Kacie (04:40):
Analyzing you. No. And that way I can talk to them about a good skincare regimen about if they have a lot of damage or large pores, I can guide them on what laser is going to correct that for them and then easily direct them to Jenny's side.

Andrea (04:57):
And did Jenny teach you to do that or is that something you've just learned over time?

Kacie (05:01):
Basically everything, all the tools Jenny has in her tool belt, she has used on me. Yeah, because I want my skin to look as amazing as possible, and

Andrea (05:11):
It does.

Kacie (05:11):
Thank you.

Andrea (05:12):
For those of you just listening and not watching the video, her skin is incredible.

Kacie (05:16):
Which is interesting you say that because when Jenny and I first met, I'll never forget, she walked in, she looked at me, my face was covered in cystic acne. It was so bad. I'd had cystic acne since fourth grade, three rounds of Accutane, could not get it cleared up. And she looks at me, she goes, I can clear your skin up. And I'm like, oh, can you? And she's like, I can. She goes, your skin is so dehydrated, you need to start putting moisture on it. I'm like, no, my skin is oily and that's why I'm breaking out. She's like, trust me. And so I started using a hydrating serum. That's all I changed on my skincare regimen. And sure enough, my skin cleared up. And at that point though, I had tons of acne scarring. So every day I was having to put this thick paste, like 48 hour makeup on to try to cover everything up, cuz in the beauty industry, right? And she's like, I can fix that for you. And I'm like, Can you? And she's like, yeah.

Andrea (06:06):
I would never, ever, ever, ever know that you had that type of scarring on your face based on sitting, what are we maybe three feet away from each other? No wonder you're one of the best in the world, Jenny, this is incredible.

Kacie (06:18):
A magician with that laser. And sure enough, it was a process. It was a, how long was that laser that you worked on my face?

Andrea (06:25):
It was a two day, two day laser.

Kacie (06:26):
It was a process. But was it uncomfortable? Yes, but I would do that a million times over because now I wear a tinted sunscreen. I don't have to put all that makeup on and yeah, I thank her almost every day for my skin.

Jenny (06:40):
Well, and I still yearly have to chase her down and go, she's still running away from me. She's like, stop. I'm like, no, you got to come back.

Kacie (06:49):
She brings up an important point, I mean, to keep up the results. It is important to, I mean, you don't have to do a deep laser like we did every year, but you do have to maintain that. So good skincare, a lighter laser like BBL, broadband light or moxie, which treats texture and pores to keep up the results.

Jenny (07:04):
Like an oil change in the car. We can't just run it forever just because we got one tune up or whatever.

Kacie (07:10):
Unfortunately, we keep aging every day.

Jenny (07:12):
If you're not anti-aging, you're aging. There is no in between.

Andrea (07:16):
Oh my gosh, I've never heard anyone say that before. And I love it if you're not actively fighting the battle, you're just getting older.

Jenny (07:21):
People have these questions and they're like, how long is this going to last me? And I'm like, well, your skin's going to be in a state of anti-aging for X amount of time, but once that time is lapsed, then you have a new foundation where you're aging from, but you have started aging again. It's not one and done. You got to keep going back.

Andrea (07:41):
So how has your practice evolved over time? You've been with the practice

Kacie (07:46):
15 years now.

Andrea (07:47):
15 years,

Jenny (07:48):
And I've been there 10.

Andrea (07:50):
Right. So Jenny joins the practice and from what I've heard, you all just are the best of friends in and out of work and have really developed this great environment for your patients within their practice. Tell me a little bit about how that evolved, where the two of you have really become partners and have this business within a business.

Kacie (08:13):
Well, again, when Jenny first joined the practice, I was the only person that had children. It was a very small practice. I think we had maybe two nurses at that time. We didn't have our surgery center yet. We didn't have our skin and laser center. It was a smaller practice with the two doctors, but she walked in, she had kids. I'm like, oh my gosh, someone I could relate to. So we just became really good friends and just, she's such a hard worker, so just if you want to earn my respect, and she's so caring, so she earned my love. And so yeah, it was just natural that you'll become besties.

Jenny (08:44):
Yeah, yeah. I remember when I first started the practice, they had bought a laser and they were training the nurses on how to run these lasers. And about a year into that they decided maybe they needed somebody that was not kind of pulled in multiple directions. And that's where I came into the practice and I think the laser was a little bit of an afterthought when they got it. It was like, oh, will, this is Dr. Reid's old office and we'll just stick the laser in there and I am not lying.

Kacie (09:17):
I heard that you were kind of in a closet.

Jenny (09:19):
I am not lying. Eventually the practice continued to grow and grow and grow that my little computer desk, which I elected to have, was in the storage closet that had the autoclave and everything.

Kacie (09:34):
Wow.

Jenny (09:35):
And it was just like me and my own little, what they call the walk-in closets, that was my office for eight years. And so when people walk into the practice now and they're like, oh my gosh, you have the most beautiful practice. You have the biggest rooms and they're so amazing and they're so this. And I'm like, you have no idea. I earned, and I don't know if I earned it, but I really appreciate that they thought to take me out of the closet and bring me into the now.

Andrea (09:58):
That brings up a really great point as far as from our listeners' perspectives, when their nose is down, working really hard to either build a business inside of a business or whatever they're doing. How did you get to the point or what did it take for you to be able to go to the owners and possibly say, Hey, it's time. Can we create some more space or can I get space? How would you advise someone that might be in a similar situation and maybe advocate for themselves in that way?

Kacie (10:30):
I would say the best way to advocate for yourself is you show your hard work. And again, that's how you're going to get their respect. They see how hard you work. There were many nights in the beginning when I was the only nurse at the practice. I was there till nine o'clock at night just trying to get everything done. And they saw that, and that's why I've been with them for so long. They have taken such good care of us, like continuing education. They always want us to go and do things like this, the conference we're at now, anything we need, I mean really they are there for us then because if we're asking for it, then it really is something we need. And so they take care of that. And so I say you work hard, you earn their respect and then good things will come.

Jenny (11:12):
I would say that we are in a unique situation because I think there's a lot of people in this industry that work hard, but there's people that take it for granted. They don't recognize people's hard work and what they're doing and the fruits of their labor and they take it for granted. So I would like to say that we have a great situation where we have doctors that support us to be great, and they want us to be great. They want us to succeed. And so there's nothing that we've ever gone to them with that they didn't say, absolutely. Or maybe not right now, but let's re-discuss later on down the road.

Andrea (11:47):
The really important part of that also is that you all have been with this practice specifically for a long time and you've also worked really hard and earned the trust to be able to really get that support. I was just speaking with a practice owner yesterday, as a matter of fact, and he was asking me, he actually is a facial plastic doc that used to use the surgery center in the practice that I managed. And he was asking, he's like, do you find it hard for plastic surgery practices to maintain their mid-levels that are doing the non-surgical? And I do see, because I work with practices across the nation that there's a lot of turnover and a lot of mid-levels and a lot of RN providers that are doing the non-surgical that are turning over and they want to maybe work someplace for a year or two and then bounce to someplace else. And that doesn't allow what you two have created, which is to build the trust and to build that loyalty and longevity with a practice where they do want to support you and provide you with everything that you want and that you need in order to really build your practices and your patient base and serve patients in the best manner.

Jenny (12:59):
I do see that where people are moving around, and I don't know if it's lack of loyalty, lack of understanding of how good things are and how long it takes to truly, you're not going to walk into a practice, and I think people have misconceptions. And unfortunately I think this is a very, on both sides, a consuming practice where people are like, what am I getting out of this? What am I getting out of this?

Andrea (13:25):
Immediately?

Jenny (13:26):
Versus it being a, what can we do to support you and how can we help you grow and want to stay here? And then people going, these people recognize where I'm at and they want to help support me. So I think it comes from both sides, but the grass is not always greener. And I used to think about when people would complain at other places I've been and I'm just like, you have no idea. You have no idea how, considering you're in a really great place, nothing's perfect, but no matter what you find the best in where you're at.

Kacie (14:00):
Early on, they hired a practice consultant to help them get their practice to be the best that it could be. And one thing they always emphasized was taking care of your employees. If anybody is starting out new, hire an expert, hire a consultant to help you get all your ducks in a row.

Andrea (14:17):
So that kind of leads us into what I would love to learn, just where my sweet spot is and a lot of our listeners is how do new patients get to you through the front desk? Do you have patient care coordinators who helps patients learn how you can help them meet their goals before they even come in and meet with you?

Kacie (14:38):
One thing I love about the practice is you're always going to get a real life person to answer the phone. So they make sure they've hired enough people to answer phones. And then it's all about the education, and we just try to educate everybody on best ways to talk to the patients, help guide them on answering their questions and guiding them on what they need. What would you say?

Jenny (14:58):
Having people that care about their job first and then definitely being educated so they can speak to the consumer and the patient that's calling in.

Andrea (15:10):
Do you two help educate the administrative and front desk and sales teams so that they understand what you're telling patients so they can sound the same?

Kacie (15:22):
Most definitely. Part of their training is they shadow us so they can hear how we talk to their patients and answer their questions and just see the whole process because, it's hard to understand what someone is doing unless you've lived in their shoes. And so that shadowing process I think is what's most important. You hear things enough, they're like, okay, that's how I answer that question. That's what that is.

Andrea (15:42):
The process, a new patient calls our front desk has some information, they're able, do you guys schedule consultations with new patients including a consultation fee? How does that work in your practice?

Jenny (15:55):
So for me, I think it works, I do both. So we have a personal scheduler that sometimes people that are coming in from out of state or we're booked out so far in advance, they want to go ahead and get something on the books, but they're not really sure. So they'll send in photos. We do photo eval consultations, we will do virtual consultations. For me, unless you've been an existing patient and kind of a plan or we communicate somehow, do they just get on my schedule? They don't call up and say, I want to come in and have a halo with Jenny. And they're like, okay, well have you ever seen Jenny before? And if the answer is no, it's like, okay, well you can't come in and just have a treatment because what you think you need or your friend may not be what you need.

(16:41):
And so I would say that there's many different ways of consultations in the practice that I personally do. And I think Casey and I will also do some consulting with patients together, whether it's via photos, virtual, but yeah, they come in and it's a very detailed 45 minute scan of the skin. And then we come up with a plan that's not only addressing wrinkles, laxity, texture, sun damage, volume loss, you name it. And so it's not just like you come in and see what I can do, you come in and we see what we can do collectively to deliver the optimal outcome for you.

Andrea (17:18):
And how do you find time? I'm sure you both just have hundreds of thousands of patients over the course of many months in a year. How do you find time in your schedules to be able to consult together?

Kacie (17:30):
We will do the consultations together. I'd say how it normally goes is we have been treating each other's patients for so long and we've been together for so long that I mean 95% of the time I know what she's going to recommend. I know what to look for. If say they have melasma, then I know she's not going to do certain lasers on them, but we'll recommend this laser to help with the melasma. So I can definitely help guide them. But sometimes they'll be a difficult patient. I will have them either consult with her virtually so it saves them a trip back to the office. Or sometimes if it's something for the deeper, like the laser resurfacing, they always need to consult with her and talk to her first before they sign up for that.

Andrea (18:13):
For me, it's understanding my boundaries and what, not boundaries, limitations.

Kacie (18:18):
Stay in your lane.

Jenny (18:19):
I know I stay in my lane and I understand my limitations.

Andrea (18:22):
Cat fight.

Jenny (18:26):
I know what I'm capable of and I also know what I'm not capable of. And I may not know exactly what neurotoxin or filler or bios stimulant that Casey may use. I also know you have this and you need to go see her because I can make your skin look great. I can tighten your skin all day long, but if you have volume loss, there's nothing I can do about that. You have to have something to either stimulate that collagen or help fill it in. And if you're constantly making muscle movements that are going to break down the skin, then I can't, no matter how many lasers I do, it's not going to stop your muscle contraction. So I think understanding your lanes and your limitations.

Kacie (19:07):
And that's what I love about us because my specialty is injectables, and so that's what I do all day every day. That's what I'm a pro at. Her specialty is lasers. And so you really are getting the best person for the injectables, whether instead of that one person that's trying to do lasers, do chemical peels.

Andrea (19:25):
All the things.

Kacie (19:25):
Do your facials, do your Botox, it's spreading yourself pretty thin. I feel like doing all of those things, I mean I know there's some rock stars out there that do it well, but with us, I can really focus on what is going to be best for you injectable wise, and she can really focus on what is best for you laser wise.

Andrea (19:40):
Kacie, we started out and you had said you were so excited when Jenny joined because she had children and she was the only other person in the practice at the time that had kids. So tell me a little bit, both of you, if you don't mind, how do you manage the balance between having these successful practice as well as being a mom and having a family?

Kacie (20:04):
It's not easy.

Andrea (20:04):
The million dollar question, same.

Kacie (20:07):
I mean, first all, we both have wonderful husbands that help a lot. I'm lucky in that my mom is retired and close by. So we have even that third person, I say, I a free nanny, cuz she'll pick 'em up for me. She's like

Andrea (20:21):
Love you mom.

Kacie (20:23):
Yes, I am so blessed that she's here. But it is, and we actually talk about this all the time, it's trying to find that balance. Of course, it's family first and career second, but it's finding that balance. It's hard. Jenny how do you do it?

Jenny (20:38):
And unfortunately you spend more time at work than you do with your family most of the time. It's a constant struggle. It is a constant check and balance. And sometimes if something gets out of whack, you need to be able to go, something's not right and you feel it. And so for me, my family is my first and foremost love, but I also love what I do. And so it's not a struggle in the fact that my family will always prevail and they'll always win. But I guess I'm blessed that I get to go to work and enjoy it and then detach and go home and be with my kids. And most of mine are grown now.

Andrea (21:14):
What? You have grown children?

Jenny (21:18):
I do.

(21:20):
And so.

Kacie (21:20):
She has a 30-year-old.

Andrea (21:21):
I really need whatever you're doing to your face. Holy cow. Incredible. And when you were talking about your career 26 years ago, I'm thinking how has she had a job for 26 years? You look incredible, but back to your point.

Jenny (21:35):
Lasers.

Andrea (21:35):
Yes.

Jenny (21:37):
Kacie. Keep me young.

Andrea (21:39):
You all are a walking billboard for each other and for yourselves. I love it. Finding the integration between the work and the family I think is challenging for all of us that have careers that we love and we're able to help people live better lives, whether it's through looking better or having knowledge and power to be able to do more in their career, but not forgetting that home is where the heart really is, is sometimes the challenging balance to find.

Jenny (22:07):
I will say that also, again, I don't mean to keep giving our practice a plug, but our doctors do understand that we do have children, we do have family, and yes, they want us there as much as we want to be there, but they also know that when we're like, no, we've got to go on vacation, we need to be with our family. They are the first to say, go do it. So very, very blessed.

Andrea (22:34):
On Practiceland. We love to do a segment called "She did what?" And it could be a crazy patient story or it could be a great story about maybe something a team member or one of you did for each other that just really shocked the heck out of you. Kacie, would you like to go first?

Kacie (22:50):
It's amazing when patients come in and doing fun things like making fuller lips or giving a pop in a cheek or getting rid of sunspot. That's every day all day. But I really love my patients that come in where it's something more like a scar or something that you can help make them better and camouflage and look better. I had a patient with a gunshot wound to the face and the plastic surgeon did an amazing job reconstructing her face, but her lip still just looked a little irregular and that just bothered her. And so being able to put some filler in her lip and smooth that out, she was just overwhelmed with joy when we were done with that. Or I had a male that just your typical manly man, but he had a cyst in his lip and they had to remove that cyst, but afterwards it left his lip very irregular. So being able to go in there, put some filler in there, make it look normal again himself, those kinds of things make you feel really good. If you want to hear a crazy story,

Andrea (23:54):
We love, we love the crazy stories.

Kacie (23:56):
Oh my gosh. So Austin is such a melting pot now. And so when I first started injections, it was Austinites and yeah, everybody here is pretty granola, they like to look natural and I love the natural look. I don't like the overdone look, but as more and more people move to Austin, you have to figure out from these different regions what people like. You have people from LA and my first LA patient, she came in and she sat down and she looked at me with disgust and she was like, okay, first off this natural thing you got going on, this is not for me. I get a hundred units in my face, I do this and this. And that was her aesthetic.

Andrea (24:32):
She's like, I don't want to look like you.

Kacie (24:33):
Yeah, she's looking at me. I'm like,

Jenny (24:35):
That's exactly what she said.

Kacie (24:36):
And I went in to Jenny, I'm like, do I look that bad today? She is like, because I don't normally wear that much makeup, I don't. But I was like, okay, but.

Jenny (24:45):
Maybe we're not the practice for you.

Kacie (24:48):
I know, but I have to that everybody has the same aesthetic, and so you have to come around. And then my New Yorkers in Texas, we like chit chat and Hi, how are you doing today? How is so and so doing? We will just, can we drag it on, my New Yorkers come in, they're like, okay, I've got so much time, let's get this done. Come on. No, chit chat, cut it out. So I did have a New Yorker the other day. She came in and she's like, okay, first off, I am seeing all these people walking around Austin and I want to make sure you do not make me look like them. And I'm like, I'm like, what are I go and she goes, I don't want to look like Texas women. And I was just like, okay. I'm like, well, tell me a little bit more about that.

(25:28):
What does a Texas woman look like that you don't like? And she's like, every just doesn't look unnatural. I'm like, which is so funny because my first patient 10 years ago from LA was like, y'all are too natural. And then you have this patient 10 years later from New York that is like, okay, everybody's looking unnatural. And I'm like, I go focus on how everybody looks here at the practice. Everybody here looks very natural. And she's like, okay, but point is I don't want you to make me look like that. It would just, but you can't help but be offended a little bit because I am a Texas woman and these different people just telling you basically you don't look good.

Andrea (26:03):
Well, they're wrong. I know you can't give me their names, but if you did, I would track them down and say they're wrong.

Kacie (26:09):
But it is funny. But I do appreciate the honesty, even though

Andrea (26:12):
Without it, how can you help them reach their specific goals?

Kacie (26:15):
Exactly. Exactly right.

Andrea (26:16):
I mean, sometimes it might be a little weird to hear.

Kacie (26:18):
But No, I did tell her, I'm like, you would not believe what this person just said. So yeah, but she actually ended up being, I mean both of them, great patients, but you just have to understand from different regions, people are just, we're all different.

Andrea (26:33):
And they do not want to look like you.

Kacie (26:34):
And they don't want to look like me.

Andrea (26:37):
What about you, Jenny?

Kacie (26:38):
I feel like there's so many, but on things like that, I have the worst memory. I will say that I do remember because I do a lot of these second degree full face, full field resurfacing on patients, and it is a controlled burn. And I have a very strict process you walk through every day. And a lot of people don't follow that. And I cannot stress enough how important it's, and it's everything is spelled out, written out very clearly. And I had this one patient and I love her to death, so sweet, but I swear she was trying to sabotage me. Everything I told her to do, she didn't do. And everything I told her not to do, she did.

Andrea (27:21):
Did she rub cayenne pepper on it? Because we had a doctor tell us someone did that in their incisions yesterday after surgery.

Jenny (27:29):
Well, this lady actually poured straight vinegar on a washcloth and put it on their face, after I did a second degree burn on their face. And so they added, yes, because I have a dilution of a vinegar compress, which is like one teaspoon to one cup of water, and they just saturated their washcloth with vinegar and put it straight on their face and they're calming like, this really burns. And I'm like, you just gave yourself a chemical burn on top of,

Andrea (27:58):
Oh my God.

Jenny (27:59):
This laser burn I have created in you seeing her every day for, was it 14 or 15 days? I was like, I am never doing another resurfacing ever. And I think there's, every now and then there's patients that push me to that brink, but I keep coming back for more because I love it.

Andrea (28:14):
Yeah, That is, yeah, that's wild.

Jenny (28:18):
Yeah.

Andrea (28:18):
Where can we follow you guys on social media?

Kacie (28:22):
So I'm on Instagram @ATXinjectorKacie, and it's K-A-C-I-E.

Jenny (28:27):
My handle is RestoredbyJenny, and you can follow me there. You can see some of my before and afters, and also if you are interested in how to achieve these results, I also provide training for surgeons, nurse practitioners, mid-level providers, US and international.

Andrea (28:45):
Well, thank you so much for joining us. I'm really excited for our listeners to be able to hear your perspective and your experience from inside the practice, basically having a practice inside the practice. So thank you for joining us. Best of luck. And I'm really not kidding about calling you guys as my trips to Austin continue.

Kacie (29:03):
Yes, come see us.

Jenny (29:04):
Please do.

Andrea (29:05):
We will definitely put your guys' information in our notes of the show as well so that any of our listeners can reach out and find you too.

Jenny (29:13):
Thank you so much.

Andrea (29:14):
Thank you ladies. Super appreciate it.

Kacie (29:16):
Thank you.

Blake (29:17):
Got a wild customer service story or a sticky patient situation? Send us a message or voicemail. If your tale makes it into our "She did what?" segment, we'll send a thank you gift you'll actually love. Promise no cheap swag here.

Andrea (29:29):
Are you one of us? Subscribe for new episode notifications and more at practicelandpodcast.com. New episodes drop weekly on YouTube and everywhere you can listen to podcasts.